*toprudder wrote:*

I'm curious, do they have to drop the genset to perform this work?

They did not have to drop the generator but looked to be an effort to get at things. Some work was from the access door and some was via a plug/panel below the generator. I think they had to take off the fuel pump to reach the fuel filter.

I assumed the valve lash adjustment was the hard thing and had gotten an estimate of 1 hr for that, but the tech spent more time on the fuel filter then the valve                               6/23/05

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Subject: Non-Starting Generator

Our Onan 4000 generator in our 1998 30 ft IB would kick over but not start even after long cranks of the starter. The indicating light in the remote start switch would occasionally flash but not stay on.

Mike Johnson of J&D Power Eq. in Deerfield NH (in our data base) was able to start it after a short amount of cranking by manually keeping the choke closed with his finger while cranking. He subsequently loosened the 2 or 3 screws on the bi-metallic choke mechanism and rotated it counter clockwise to provide more choke. No charge-Thanks Mike!

Apparently the choke was too open for enough gas to be drawn into the engine to sustain firing.

I mention this because this is something some of us can do for ourselves in a similar situation. For this model generator (4.0 BGE-FA/26100P) the choke mechanism is on the top right side of the generator as you look at it thru the open access door.  Left of that is a space to reach over with a finger and feel the top of the choke linkage. Rolling the top of the linkage to the right keeps the choke closed while you push the start button.                      Bob          8/7/05

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Subject: Failure of Onboard Generator to Provide Power-Followup (Long)

This is a follow-up on an earlier post regarding failure of my onboard Onan generator to provide power.  The generator had had its regular monthly run under load a few days previous, and was normal. On a stop during a short trip I started the generator to run the air conditioner, but there was no 120VAC power to anything. The generator switch and all 120VAC panel breakers were
cycled several times; still no power. After getting home I plugged the line shore power back in and had full 120VAC power. I unplugged and tried the generator again: no power.   I contacted Steve Newton and with his instructions as a guide, I pulled the 120V/12V assembly out and accessed the Parallax automatic transfer switch (ATS), which is attached to the back of the Parallax
Model 80 120VAV/12V housing.   For the technically uninclined, 120V current feeds into the breaker panel assembly from the generator and the line shore power through a switching mechanism. When the generator is turned on, the switch should allow a 30-60 second time delay, and then allow 120V current from the generator to flow through the breaker panel to the 120V
outlets and appliances. At the same instant, the line shore power is automatically cut off to prevent both feeding into the system, and to prevent 120V current feeding back from the generator to the shore line, if attached.   I switched the lead-in wiring from the Line and Generator from the normal Line--->ATS line fitting, and Generator--->ATS generator fitting, to: Generator--->ATS line fitting, and Line--->ATS generator fitting. After switching the lead-in wiring, I now had full normal 120VAC power when running the generator, and nothing on shore line power. This indicated that the ATS was faulty, as Michelle had correctly surmised in a previous message.
The next step was to remove and expose the ATS to check for a loose connection, loose wire, or something interfering with the relay plates. On inspection, the circuitry looked absolutely normal and I could see nothing wrong or repairable. I contacted Steve, and he had a new ATS unit UPS'd to me. When it arrived, I removed the defective ATS and did a side-by-side comparison, and still saw no obvious problem. I put the new ATS in, put all the wiring back to normal, and ran the line tests. I now had normal 120VAC on shore line, and on testing the generator with the shore line off, there was a normal time delay, then full normal 120VAC power to all outlets and appliances. The defective ATS is being returned.

Summary: I have detailed this to help anyone who might experience a similar problem. Steve at the LD factory was most helpful for guidance and providing the replacement unit. Michelle mentioned in a previous post that it had happened to her, but in her case she lost the shore power, but still had generator power. The fault was still in the ATS.  This is the second major Parallax component failure in less than a year in my 2004 LD. I left the factory with a defective converter (the cooling fan ran constantly on 120VAC); I replaced it with a new unit sent from the LD factory, and this is still working OK. The ATS failure was without any fore-warning, and I'm just glad it didn't happen on a long trip away from home. As it was it took over ten days to resolve, and the RV coach was effectively dead in the water during much of this time, since full access to the ATS requires all electrical input be disconnected including the coach batteries and solar panel(s).      Will   8/30/05

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Please see my many posts regarding Onan's "stuck flywheel" This is a very common problem with the onan 4k units. But Onan still insists they have never heard of it when I call.

If we start discussing it more here, perhaps Onan will be forced to recognize the problem and correct it.

You can suspect this problem if you push the starter switch and hear a click, but no cranking.

You reach in to the upper left side of the unit, grab the fin on the flywheel and give it a sharp tug. It should be difficult, but with a bit of elbow grease it will move about 1/2 inch. After that your unit will start.

Please everyone, let Onan know if you experience this problem, and share it here.     9/14/05

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I inspected this short rubber piece on my 2003 LD MB and found about a 2 inch long crack in the outer layer of rubber and a couple other small cracks, but no leak yet in mine.

Page 12 of the Onan installation manual says to use 1/4 inch inner diameter fuel hose (SAE 30-R7). That is exactly what Pep Boys sold me and I installed today. The new hose looks and feels a lot better than the old one.

I'm sure you saved me from a possible inconvenience and/or safety hazzard. Thanks again. Ken    5/6/06

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Well after reading reports on broken mufflers and being in denial (that would never happen to me) it broke off the tailpipe right at
the muffler. I called Onan and they gave me a name of an authorized repair shop in Simi Valley (where I live). They are the same shop that is an authorized Volvo repair shop that my wife uses. After a couple of hours there it they finally found the right muffler but of course it's not in stock. So it is on order and I will be waiting.

While there I asked about various generator maintenance and the owner asked if I ever 'drained' the muffler. What? Well there is a plug on the bottom of the muffler (looks like an oil drain plug) and it should be removed at the end of a trip to drain moisture out. Did anyone else know this? This plug is also used to clean out the spark arrestor which should be done every 50 hours or so, Anyone else know about this?

I will give a full report once the work is completed if done to my satisfaction and enter the shop name in the database.

Jerry 2/12/08

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Micro Quiet 4000 Generator - "Sucking Air"

Another source of the generator sucking air instead of gas is detailed on "Techsnoz" in the "Files" section in article "GeneratorFuelLine. pdf". You can get to "Techsnoz" through the "Links" on this site under "Improvements" .

My generator would be fuel starved when the Ford fuel tank would be about 3/4 full or less. Apparently the air leak was at the fixture on the top of the main fuel tank or a cracked rubber hose joining the plastic fuel line to the fixture. I replaced the fuel line from the generator to the fuel tank and entered the fuel tank through the horizontal gas tank filler hose that is underneath the downspout where you place the gas pump nozzel. Thus I did not have to drain and lower the fuel tank and I also have easy access in case the problem should ever have to get to the end of the line in the tank again. The new fuel line is one continuous run up to the nipple on the generator itself. The old fuel line was sealed off and abandoned.

This "sucking air" problem is becoming quite common and figuring out what the problem actually is can be baffling. The article details tests that can be made to eliminate the generator itself as the
source of the problem. A little preliminary testing can save lots of repair shop time at $100/hour trying various parts replacement without finding the "real" source of the problem.

This "Do It Yourself" solution costs less than $50 in parts and only requires sweating some common copper plumbing fittings and filing out the inside of some rubber fuel line tubing.

Terry Tanner

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> Just to let everyone know of a recent dilemma I had re: our 2003 RB. Before traveling to the> Balloon festival I changed the 6 inch flexible fuel line underneath the generator which leads to the fuel filter metal line. Starting after that on our way the generator would starve out when the surge protector kicked in after 2.16 mins. Sometimes would run fine. I also developed a tapping noise in the lower left corner. Went to the Cummins repair in Albuquerque and Ken (specializes in Gens) diagnosed the fuel pump being bad and took care of me. However when I used it again I still got the occasional problem. I went back to Ken and he figured it may be the line sucking air. 90 percent of the time he explained is the line at the top of the tank. Not wanting to pursue this avenue I left and continued to try finding it on my own. I thought back to my repair and the air theory. The line is well protected and
> since I watched him replace the pump I set out to find the answer. I took out the pump and closely examined the small filter that has the nipple for the fuel line. Sure enough the metal had a small bend going into the filter. Ken had reused my filter and the small crack in the metal was sucking air but not losing fuel as there is no pressure on that side of the pump. I wrapped it with tape(field repair) and it works great. Will replace the filter soon. So to the wonderful people at the Balloon Festival who listened intently as I explored remedies to the problem I thank you for your ears. And to Mike and Lisa who bailed me out with the flick of the generator switch thrown at Cummins repair that I didn't catch. Wah'la power to the grid.
> Thanks for listening, John and Linda     10/17/08

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The only thing worse than something not working is something workiing intermittently. Thats where I find myself with the generator on my 96 LD30. The generator works perfictly in the cool morning, but if it is a hot day, the genetator does not stay on after I remove the pressure on the starting switch. To clarify, the generator engine starts, but the indicator light stays off and the engine quits when I remove pressure on the switch. The same thing happens when I use the starter switch at the genset.
I called a local generator guy who said that the brushes are probably bad in the generator and the unit would need to be dropped out of the RV for the repair. He totaly discounted the intermitent nature of the problem. I am over my head on this, and will probably need an expert to look at the unit, but I would at least like to know what might be causing this situation.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of generator issue? I probably need to add, the fuel tank is full and the RV is level.                           Ed              9/20/09

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The first thing to do is to look at the altitude adjust lever on the carburator. People sometimes forget to reset this, or sometimes it just somehow gets on the wrong setting by vibration or something. Also, how long has it been since you changed the spark plugs? Do you exercise it with a load for a couple of hours regularly?                  Tom Johnston                 9/20/09

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I had a similar problem recently. The tech originally thought it was the fuel pump, but on further investigation he determined it was the circuit board. Might be worth checking.                                            Al in Bremerton              9/20/09

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> Just completed a month trip to East Coast and the last day or so, I could not start the generator from the inside control panel. However could start it by the switch on the generator. The control panel switch would shut it down tho.

Found the Problem.  The trouble shoot effort went like this: Reviewed the Onan document and noted that there should be 12 vdc on the START line to the control switch in the control panel. There was no voltage there. Went to the connector in the generator compartment and there was no voltage on the appropriate pin from the Onan generator. Hence the problem is not a broken wire between the generator and control panel and must be internal to the generator. Since I don't feel qualified to dig into the inside of the generator, had to take it to Onan repair shop.

Their verdict: "Found Bad Connection in Start Wire, Replaced All Butt Connectors"

Can now start the generator from the inside.                                                     Dan Z.                              11/9/09

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Generator fuel line leaks and a $50 solution for Rear Bath models are discussed in the "Techsnoz" Yahoo Group "Files Section" article GeneratorFuelLine.pdf. This solution avoids dropping the fuel tank and the work can be done when the fuel tank is just less than full without spilling gas. It is pretty east to do on a Rear Bath as the fuel tank filler hose is fully exposed. On a Rear Kitchen, the big hose is tucked between a waste tank and the leaf spring. It looked doable but difficult. The RK owner then went to the "Mothership" and they fixed it without dropping the tank for $125 if I remember right. The trick was finding a worker with long arms and tiny hands. I have not checked the other floor plans. The leak in the short rubber hose on the top of the fuel tank is a common problem. The genset does not run when the tank is less than "almost" full. The easiest way to determine if this is indeed the problem is use a rubber hose between the genset and a gas can. If the genset runs off the gas can but not off the main fuel tank, the problem is a tiny air leak in the rubber hose either at the top of the fuel tank fitting, or in the rubber hose leading to the genset inlet fitting.                                                                                      Terry Tanner                           1/3/10

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Here is the reference info I sent to Todd at Lazy Daze:

We found a muffler thru the phone number you gave us--1-800-888-6626---Cummins/Onan NE. For reference their part number is 155-2086 for the Onan 4000 generator(4.0 BGE FA/26100P) on the '98 30' IB we have. The tail pipe and hanger we got from you worked fine.                                                                                                                        3/4/10

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Last year our genset starting surging. I found the oil level high and drained some out. The surging stopped. I still can not figure out how gravity was suspended and several extra ounces got into the engine. Nor do I have a clue how excess oil would cause surging. But it did and draining it stopped the surging.                                 Don M.                                 3/19/10

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When I purchased my 2000LD in 2009. the genset had only 12 hrs. on it. I knew there was going to trouble. I was right. It would surge up and down until it would stall. The problem is varnish left when the unit is shut off and left for long periods. My solution was to use Onans product to clean out the varnish. I also changed the oil and filter and spark plugs. Then I poured a large amount ot Sta-Bil in the gas tank. After starting it, I ran it for two hours under full load. It smoothed out and hasn't missed since. I make a habit of adding Sta-Bil and run the unit once a week for 15 minutes under a load. Haven't had a surge since. I priced the carb at CW at 285. No parts were available, so they say.I hope this helps someone.          Darryll                     3/19/10

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Unlike the others I think you only go to the Onan dealer when your under warranty or have done enough homework to determine your problem is beyond your capability to fix. Its not uncommon to walk in an Onan shop and leave with a hefty bill for something that you could have fixed with a little online knowledge.

I would visit Smokstak - Onan a forum which specializes in Onan generators. In order to get accurate answers you will need to post your full model number etc - Onan makes a great number of generators. If your patient and use their search feature I suspect you will find an answer.  I would also suggest you purchase a Service Manual for your generator - you can buy one online on the Onan website.                                                                                                    Kevin                       4/13/10

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We had to replace our gen fuel pump last year..Prior to doing this we determined that the Fuel pump WAS NOT.. pumping fuel by doing the following without dropping the genset.

Remove one end of the fuel line from the gen carburetor and put it in a jar. Then Pigtail from the +(positive) side of the genset starter lead to the + pole of the genset fuel pump & see if the pump pumps fuel. IF it does a good amount them possibly the fuel filter ? IF not good chance it's the pump.

Also the fuel pump in the vehicle fuel tank DOES NOT Feed the gen..that is the purpose of the fuel pump on the gen. SO why drop that fuel tank???

Not knowing where you are located..I'd see if there is a Cummings Onan facility where you could take it.      Sylvia   8/9/10

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Here is more information on changing the air filter in your Onan Emerald Plus BGE generator.

I will be the first to say that replacing this air filter is not an easy job. There is room to insert a box end wrench or small 1/4" drive socket wrench between the right side of this air filter box and right side of the generator enclosure but not much.

In my opinion the best way to remove the air filter box is to you a closed end 7/16" box wrench to remove the bolt shown. Most box end wrenches have a slightly angled tilt on the end of the wrench which will permit you to get the end of the wrench on the recessed head of that bolt.

When the bolt is completely loose - pull it out to the right as far as possible with the bolt still inserted into the filter box. Then pull the filter box with bolt and filter towards you removing it from the generator.

Replace the air filter element with new and I have listed 3 brands and P/Ns below:

Onan - P/N 140-2379
WIX - P/N 42362
NAPA - P/N 2362

On my generator's filter, there was an additional 1/8" thick yellow foam filter element stretched over the filter itself. Remove that element from the old filter, wash it in water with detergent, then rinse it in clean water, and then re-install it on the new filter.

I found it best to remove the air filter box with the box end wrench but to reinstall the filter and box with a 1/4" drive socket wrench with 7/16" socket.

Now here is really the hard part. With the air filter box removed, you will notice an air hose that was connected to the rear of the filter box. This hose is for the warm air supply into the air box. You will notice two holes on the rear of air filter box. The left side hole is oblong and is for the cold air inlet. The right side hole is round and is the hole in which the warm air supply hose should be inserted when re-installing the air filter and box - only this step is really difficult to accomplish in my experience. You would be lucky if this hose would happen to insert itself properly in this round hole when re-installing the air filter and box. If you aren't lucky, then the only way the hose can be inserted is to drop the generator down so that you can have enough rear access to get you hand back there to insert the hose manually.

The cradle holding the generator is hinged in the back. Put a hydraulic floor jack under the front part of the generator cradle and jack up just enough to support that part of the cradle. Then remove the two lower support bolts located near the bottom middle of the generator and then slowly lower the jack and the front of the generator will lower and tilt down enough to get you hand in behind the air filter box to insert the warm air hose into the round hole.

Here is additional information on how to lower (tilt down) the Onan generator in order to make it easier to replace the air filter element by provided better access the 7/16" bolt on the right side of the air filter box. Also, dropping the generator will most likely be required in order to reconnect the warm air supply hose to the round hole in the back side of the plastic air filter box or in order to replace the back side spark plug.

A detailed procedure to properly lower you Onan generator is posted in the Technical Library section below under the topic Lowering Onan BGE Series Emerald Plus Generators in your B/F or you can click on the following link to go there directly: http://www.bornfreervclub.org/bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?t=2355

The fuel feed line to the generator is a flexible rubber hose coming to the generator near the hinge point at the bottom rear of the carrier - so this connection is not compromised when raising and lowering the generator. The electrical cable is the only thing that needs to be disconnected at the male-female connector joint shown in the photo in my post above if you need to lower the generator beyond a certain point. This connector joint has two locking tabs that must be depressed in order to separate the two connectors.

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Just a comment on this, you can easily drain gas from the carb if you are storing the unit. Loosen the needle valve screw at the bottom of the carb bowl and the gas will drain out. You DO NOT need to remove the screw. Use a rag to absorb the gas, it won't be much. Make sure to tighten the screw back up but DO NOT over-tighten.             Tim Pease         9/2/10

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Cover over drain plug:  Get rid of the torx secured cover and install a quick drain. If you need more information, several months ago someone on this board listed a Japanese company that sells them. I just can't find it right now. I have them on LD, Toad and Onan. Work great and with a piece of plastic tubing you can drain right into a 2 litre pop bottle or a milk jug.

These are the valves. Note the model that has the nipple for a drain tube. This way you can stick the tube right in the bottle before you turn it on and no drip. They have custom valves for the V10 but the onan requires an adapter. It needs the adapter anyway as it wouldn't stick down far enough for you to turn it on and off. I had some problem getting the adapter to stop leaking at the threads and finally used Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant and it sealed up just fine. The others don't have the nipple model that I can see.

It is Fumotoo Industries: http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=451       Roger   9/25/10

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I wonder if Onan went to the trouble to install a cover plate to prevent cooling air from escaping. The cover doesn't appear to have any other purpose since the drain plug is recessed and protected. It would be cheaper for Onan to exclude the cover, so I suspect it`s there for a reason.

I have not seen a photo of the drain valve installed. I would not want a valve that had any part extending below the bottom plate for fear of knocking it off. The bottom of the stock generator is just about indestructible, except for the exhaust pipe. We have ventured down some iffy roads where things underneath have rubbed. I would hate to break off the valve and possibly damage the generator.                                                                                                  Larry                 9/25/10

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I believe the threads on the genset oil drain are NPT either 1/4 or 1/8. Can't recall which. The original plug is installed from the factory with a sealer. I use Permatex #2 for re-installation.                               John                   9/26/10

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When you try starting the generator at the generator, does it click once?
The 4kw onan sometimes will have the crankshaft stop in a bad spot. I had that happen. An Onan tech told me to disconnect the house battery cables from the batteries. Then remove the generator cover. Reach into the front around the air filter. You'll feel the blades for cooling the engine. Carefully grab the top blade and pull it towards you. It may be hard to pull. This will free the crankshaft. Reconnect the batteries and start the generator.  Wear gloves or use a rag to protect your hand from blades.
Reason this happens is it's a single piston with counter balancing. Not enough starter torque to get things moving. Rare when it stops somewhere in the compression cycle.                                                    rv.net                 10/18/10

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> Has anyone changed their oil on an ONAN, EMERALD PLUS generator? If so, how do you turn the "T" valve on the oil drain? Is there a special tool that fits down into that crowded area that allows you to fit over the "T" and turn it? DO you just turn the valve a 1/2 turn? I know there must be a trick to doing this that I don't know.
> Dale from Downey.
>

You must turn the valve several (4 or 5?)complete turns to open it. Doing so without a tool is hard.  Unfortunately, you must make your own tool. See my message 119910 on this site for instructions. The photo mentioned is no longer posted. As I remember, I deleted it several years ago when there was a shortage of photo space.                      Linley             1/27/11

I found that I could use a lightly hammered notched wooden dowel to nudge one of the wings to loosen, and then turn it easily by hand.                                                                                                                   Rich Gort            1/27/11

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